UWyo Spotlight
UWyo Spotlight introduces you to the people who make the University of Wyoming special, as well as those who bring their expertise to UW. We’ll share their stories, explore the work they’re doing and discover why it matters to Wyoming and beyond.
The University of Wyoming is a remarkable place where students, faculty, staff and people from across Wyoming are making an impact on our state.
UWyo Spotlight
New Beginnings
President Reeves sits down with ASUW President Sam Kaiser to hear the student perspective on life at the University of Wyoming, the issues that matter most to students and what students are looking for when choosing a college. As a Laramie local, Sam brings a unique perspective on campus life, student and community involvement and what makes UW feel like home.
And, of course, no conversation with a Laramie local would be complete without getting the inside scoop on where to find the best steak in town.
Learn more about ASUW at uwyo.edu/asuw.
Hello, and welcome to the first episode of UWYO Spotlight, a new podcast from the University of Wyoming. I'm Shane Reeves, and I'm honored to serve as the president of this great university. I want to start by talking a little bit about why we're doing this. The University of Wyoming is a remarkable place. There are students doing extraordinary things. There are faculty members conducting research that is changing Wyoming and making an impact far beyond our state. And there are thousands of individual stories that, taken together, tell the story of the University of Wyoming. That's what UWYO Spotlight is about. This podcast is going to give us a chance to introduce you to some of those people and ideas, to hear what they're working on, why it matters, and what it tells us about where UW is headed. And our guests won't all be from the university. We'll also sit down with people from across Wyoming and beyond, leaders in business and industry, government, technology, and other fields, prominent alumni and friends of the
Intro
SPEAKER_01university, and people who have interesting experiences and perspectives to share. Some of those conversations will help us understand the challenges facing Wyoming. Others will explore new ideas and opportunities. And some will simply introduce you to remarkable people who have a connection to this university and our state. I want this to be a conversation that connects the university with the people we
Getting to Know Sam Kaiser
SPEAKER_01serve. My first guest is Sam Kaiser, president of the Associated Students of the University of Wyoming, our student body president. I thought starting with the student perspective made sense. After all, everything we do at a university ultimately comes back to our students. Plus, I've been at UW for a few weeks. Sam has actually been here long enough to know where everything is, which, frankly, gives him a substantial advantage over the president. Sam, welcome to UWYO Spotlight.
SPEAKER_00Well, thank you, President Reeves. It's an absolute honor to be here. And hopefully by the end of this interview, I can introduce you to where the library is. Well, I'll take it. But you need to know where it is more than I do.
SPEAKER_01All right. So I figure there were two possibilities with the first episode. One is I could interview myself, which would be extremely efficient since I already know all the answers. Or I could come to you, who is the spokesperson for the students. So that's why I decided to go with you. What do you think? Take that idea? I think it's a great idea. All right. So uh I think I made the right choice. Um, I've had a few interactions with you already. Uh we've we've talked uh in a formal setting at the Board of Trustees. We've had a chance to engage informally, and uh I I know you probably wouldn't like this, but you are awesome. Like I have already made that determination. Extremely talented. And uh when I thought about what we're gonna do for a podcast, I'm like, I need to get Sam on here first thing, because uh, first off, you really do exemplify what we look for in our students. Uh you're immensely talented, and you have a great suit. Okay. Well, thank you, President Reeves. I appreciate that. Sure. So um as president, I'm gonna spend a lot of time asking people for their thoughts about the University of Wyoming. And that's why it makes sense that we have this conversation. Uh, because as the ASUW president, I think you're gonna spend a lot of time trying to inform me and telling me what what uh what are some of the uh things that students are interested in. So this may be uh the beginning of a long and it definitely will be a productive relationship, but uh I'm looking forward to this. So, Sam, before we get into some of the specifics and some of the substantive things and the conversation about student government and some of the big issues facing the university from your perspective, I just want people to get to know you. Uh so tell me a little bit about yourself. So I'm actually from Laramie. Oh nice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was born and raised here. Uh best place to eat. Go. Oh, best place to eat. Uh I like altitude. I think it's a great place. My aunt actually owns it. I'm not gonna ask you the worst place because your other aunt might own that. So we're gonna keep going. I don't want to do that. Uh yeah, but it's it's been fantastic to be at the University of Wyoming. The connections that I've had, the proximity that the to family and other things that I love uh about this town has just been fantastic. And you know, I just feel connected to the state being at the university. By being from Laramie, does that mean your parents drive you to class every day? I think my mom would uh not be pleased if she had to drive me to class. She already didn't like it in high school.
SPEAKER_01So, what brought you to the university? I mean, obviously you're from Laramie. Obviously you're from Wyoming, but what
Why UW
SPEAKER_01made you go? I want to go to UW?
SPEAKER_00So I really didn't apply that many places. I applied here and then I applied to our neighbors down south, unfortunately. But uh uh when I came here, uh when I did the tour here, I was I had the opportunity to meet with the department chair of the International Studies program, uh Dr. Nicholas Crane. He's fantastic. Uh it was during the summer, so he obviously wasn't working during that time. He took time out of his day uh to leave his family, come and introduce me to this uh the program. He gave me a full presentation, toured me around campus, made me feel important, made me feel like I was a student that mattered on campus. And I think that for me really solidified why I should go to UW is because they care about you. And I think that's really important.
SPEAKER_01Do you think that personal connection is unusual in higher education? A hundred percent. We do get to know each other, accessibility is important to us, and personal connection. So it's good to hear that. What what surprised you after you got on campus, even though you grew up in Laramie? What surprised you when you got onto the campus of UW?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think it just the difference that UW is compared to the community of Laramie. Obviously, I grew up here all my life. I went to high school here. Uh, you don't really interact with the university as much when you're in middle school and high school, and then you come to the university, it's a completely different thing. Uh, I think that's what surprised me most is it's so separate, but still connected to the community. Uh, but there's a completely different opportunity at the University of Wyoming. And that's what I'd tell every high school student that's thinking maybe I don't, or Wyoming high school student that's thinking maybe I don't want to go to UW because uh, you know, I'll see all my high school buddies, I want to get out of the state. The university is different. You will find new opportunities and you'll get new experiences.
SPEAKER_01When you arrived, I mean I know you you talked about your initial introduction to the university, but when you arrived, was there an organization? Was there a teacher? Was there a friend? Was there uh uh some sort of extracurricular activity that made you think, yep, this is for me, I'm at the right place.
Honor's College
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, I think for me it was actually the honors college. Uh so I I applied to be in the honors college not really knowing what it was about. Uh, I went to a little bit of an information session, uh, and and I learned more about their goal, their inter interdisciplinary uh goal and ambition for the university. And there's a lot of opportunities within that experiential learning, funding, scholarships, all sorts of different things. And it made me feel important, it made me feel special, and it made me feel like a student that could actually succeed at the University of Wyoming.
SPEAKER_01So I'm a big fan of interdisciplinary work because problems are not solved in a vacuum. Uh we don't look at a problem through a single single discipline any longer. And so when you mentioned the Honor College and their interdisciplinary approach to problem solving, uh, that resonates with me, but but why does that excite you so much?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it's just because I have the opportunity to interact with so many different people that I wouldn't have the opportunity to interact with on a daily basis. I think in my political science science classes, you tend to get siloed within a certain group of students and a certain group of thinking and things of that nature. And so I really think that as we uh as you go into the honors college and you get exposed to different ways of thinking and different ways of living, you can really become a complete student. And that's what really excites me.
SPEAKER_01One of the classic purposes of higher education is to help you develop as a thinker, to move from maybe being binary in your thinking or through looking at the world through a single prism and become more sophisticated. And when you mention that and you say that, I'm like, okay, good, we're doing it, we're doing a good job. Now,
Getting Involved with ASUW and Student Government
SPEAKER_01you've gone from being a student to being elected by your fellow students to uh lead ASUW. What does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think it's a it's a tremendous honor, and and every day I'm grateful that I was given the opportunity to represent my fellow students. Um, you know, it was it was a long path. I've been in student government for for three years now, and and getting elected to become president is nothing like I've done before. Uh I think it's it's fantastic the voice that students really do have on this campus and the ability that they have to to create change in policy that does benefit student life and student experience on campus, and to be a small part of that really is a tremendous honor. Aaron Powell What made you interested in student government? So I mentioned I was from Laramie, and uh, you know, getting out of high school, you're always scared that you're just gonna hang out with your high school buddies and not really go do anything. No, and it was it was more like I wanted to get involved, right? I wanted to make sure that I met people from outside of Laramie or outside of Cheyenne, uh, get to know people that are maybe outside of our state, maybe uh even outside of our country. And so I became involved in as much as possible. Uh I I heard about our first year Senate uh and I joined that. I signed up for that, became the presiding officer of the first year Senate my my freshman year, and then beyond past that I just grew a passion for student government and what the what we can do in terms of our capacity.
Leadership and Engagement
SPEAKER_01What do you think your students are looking for in their leadership?
SPEAKER_00I think they're just looking for someone that's stable, that that really listens to them, that sits down and talks. Um I actually draw a lot of inspiration from the way that you're going around the campus in these first few months, just actually being present, listening, talking, uh going around and having people know that you are their president and you represent them and you care about them. You care about their thoughts and you care about their opinions, and you're trying to create concrete change that in in the end will benefit the university. Does it always have to be about change? I think it has to be about making sure that we're moving forward. I think we have to move forward. You've used the word ascend a lot. And I think ASCW on a micro level, we have to ascend as well to match the University of Wyoming.
SPEAKER_01But you could argue that some innovations are actually returning to something that worked previously. So my what an example might be in this in this age when there's so when people feel like they're so connected, but they're actually isolated, efforts to try to revert to a campus where people actually engage. Students talk, they they talk to their faculty, they talk to their professors, they spend time together. This more dynamic social interaction is is is a bit of a regression to a little bit of an earlier age. I mean, that to me would be an innovation, but it's also looking at our historical precedent. You agree with that?
SPEAKER_00Disagree with that? Yeah, I would argue that that's moving forward. I would argue that that's what this university needs. I talk about this a lot in our different uh uh committee meetings and leadership meetings within ASUs. We have to figure out how to get our students back on campus.
SPEAKER_01Go to college like one time. Um I mean, well, I mean, there's some people who go multiple times, but most people go to college one time. So you gotta make the most of it. And it's not just about an education. I would I think you'd probably agree. It's also about developing them.
SPEAKER_00Aaron Powell Well, I always say it's not about what you know, it's about who you know. And you're not gonna get to know anybody on campus unless you get out there and you get involved. Um, that's been my mantra as I've moved through college is that you do have to go to class and you have to get an education, you have to be committed to your academic coursework, but you also have to get out there, you have to put yourself out there, get out of your comfort zone, and explore the options that are on this campus.
SPEAKER_01I appreciate uh watching people develop about and turning into leaders. I've seen great leaders, I've been around great leaders. Uh what I like about higher education is it gives um many opportunities for leadership. You can be faculty that learn uh how to lead other faculty, you might be leading a research team, you might be a student who's leading an organization, you could be in a fraternity or a sorority. What do you generally think of when you think of leading? Like when I say lead, what do you think? And I'll give you an example. I had a boss who said, Hey, Shane, leadership is actually comes down to four things. Leadership comes down to this you have to set the vision, you have to build the team to effectuate that vision, you need to resource them, and then you need to build a bench. You do those four things, those are those are big, broad strokes, but that's basically leadership. And that's resonated with me for a very, very long time. So when I ask you who's leading, probably one of the most prominent organizations on campus, what do you think of when I say leadership?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I tend to think of servant leadership, that you have to set that base, and I have to be at that base. I can't be sitting up top, I can't be making top-down decisions. I have to be that servant. I really think that if you don't build that team and they don't trust you and they don't respect you, you're not going to get much done.
SPEAKER_01How do you balance a myriad of opinions on a topic and then finally make a decision?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a great question. I think a lot of it is making sure you hear those opinions. I think if people feel heard, uh, that's that's one step in the right direction. Um, you know, I think it's very important to have those conversations, make sure they're heard. But at the end of the day, it has to make, you have to make a decision and you have to stand by what you say.
SPEAKER_01So just have all these thoughts running through my head about the best leaders I've seen. And you hit on it. This this servant leadership really means there's a selflessness, there's an accountability component, there's also uh a presence component, right? And there's a lead by example. Don't ask someone to do something that you're not willing to do yourself. And of course, there's an integrity that underlies all of that, which which to me is something, again, that I find really awesome about Wyoming, that a lot of those virtues are are naturally um taught or or um inculcated in in young people. And I had a gentleman say to me uh today, he said, you know, I've learned that my um influence from Wyoming has been my unfair advantage in life. Meaning that some of these things, this grit, this tenacity, this independence of thought and action and character and selflessness and all those accountability, those traits translate very well into success as a leader in any type of situation. And that's why I think it's really important that we emphasize those things at the University of Wyoming because it will set up the students to be successful going forward. All right, let
UW as a Small Institution with Big Level Execution
SPEAKER_01me just let me just pivot here. Let's broaden this out about a bit. Again, I've been at UW for just a relatively short period of time. You've really had a great experience both with the community and at the university as a student. If I was to dis if I was to ask you to describe the University of Wyoming to someone who has never been here, you know, someone who's who is is you know living on the East Coast, has never been to Wyoming, never been to the University of Wyoming, and they were like, hey, tell me about it, what would you say?
SPEAKER_00I tend to describe it uh to people that haven't been here as uh a smaller institution with big level ideas and big level uh execution. You see it so many different ways. I mean, we have a smaller population of students at the University of Wyoming, sure, but we have so many great opportunities that you can't even get at those larger institutions. I think about things like our fantastic study abroad programs. Yes. We have one of the best in the nation, and we really need to highlight that and focus on that because you're not going to get that opportunity many other places. I also think about things like our student organizations. We have over 200 student organizations for people to belong on campus to feel that sense of community. You'll know your faculty, you'll know your fellow peers, you'll know your administration. You also get the opportunity to do big-level things, get big level experiences, experiential learning. We have a lot of opportunity for our internship program that we're uh we're starting this year. Um, students have the ability to get with Wyoming businesses, small Wyoming businesses, and get real-level experience. Uh, and it's it's frankly, it's there for the taking. There's there's so many opportunities for our students because Wyoming businesses want to be involved with the university.
SPEAKER_01That balance between personal touch and opportunity uh is maybe one of the great distinguishers between the University of Wyoming and some of these other uh state schools, but you really hit on something that goes back to what we said earlier, the personal connection. I think we keep coming back to this where you know people, you talk to them, uh, you engage with them. And I think that's what one of the things that makes UW so um so special. Can you describe
Office Hours
SPEAKER_01a little bit uh along those lines about the relationship between the students and the faculty at UW?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think it's it's fantastic. I mean, obviously at every institution of faculty will have office hours, but really it's difficult to get into those office hours to have those conversations. I know so many of my fellow students that have had the opportunity to just go in and chat. It's not even about class, it's about maybe uh they want to go study abroad somewhere. They want to do a summer internship, they want to uh maybe work in a lab, uh the the faculty's lab. Uh there's so many opportunities for connection beyond just the classroom setting. And I think students tend to get locked into the cycle of I'm going to class and the faculty is there to grade my assignments, and then I'm gonna get out of that class. But at the University of Wyoming, I think it's flipped. I think class is obviously one part of the faculty's job to the students, but at the University of Wyoming, there's a duty from the faculty to support them beyond the classroom in that experiential learning aspect. And I know we keep coming back to it, but it's a really important thing that we have to talk about.
SPEAKER_01But if you were talking to uh a high school kid from from uh you know Shell, Wyoming, or if you were talking to uh a high school kid from South Carolina, is that what you would tell them? Is that there's this this this nice equilibrium or balance between opportunity and the advantages of of uh of a small state school is the selling point for Wyoming? I think it should be. I think it should be. So one of the things
UW as a Flagship Institution
SPEAKER_01that attracted me back to Wyoming, and I've talked about this quite a bit, is that that this is Wyoming's university. Uh and we have a responsibility to the state uh that that this is the university for all 23 counties um and our tribes. So, from a student's perspective, when I say this is the university of Wyoming, and it means it's for all of Wyoming, what does that mean to you?
SPEAKER_00I think it's an immense opportunity for the University of Wyoming. Um, we're the only land-grant university, we're the only flagship university. You don't get that across the country. And that means that you're gonna have a significant connection that you won't find between states and universities anywhere else. Um there's so much support around the state for this university. I think about when we went to the Board of Trustees meeting in Evanston, you you'd you'd walk around the town four hours away from Laramie, and you'd see a bumper sticker with the cowboy joe on it. You'd see a flag in a window uh with Wyoming on it. And, you know, they're only two hours away from Utah or Utah State, but there's still that that Wyoming pride, there, that University of Wyoming pride, even at the corners of our state. Um, you know, I think our basketball team, we always have every year the the one Wyoming jerseys. And I think that really exemplifies the point that that we should be trying to make is that we are one Wyoming. There's only one four-year institution here, and and that's an immense opportunity. And I think uh beyond the university, it's an opportunity for for the university to to train young people and then send them out of the workforce in Wyoming, benefit Wyoming.
Connecting UW and the State of Wyoming
SPEAKER_00Do we do a good job connecting students to the whole state? You know, I think there's been steps that have been taken in the in the past few years on this uh on the on this issue. I think we have to do more. I think we it I talk about this internship program that we're starting. We have to make sure that our small Wyoming businesses are connected with the University of Wyoming. We have to make sure that students actually want to stay in the University of Wyoming. And I don't think that's entirely the university's job, uh, but it is it is something where we have to get the uh the students connected to the broader scape of Wyoming. If you're from California and the only place you've been is Laramie, you don't feel connected to the state. So how can we get students out on service trips? How can we get them out on internships? How can we get them even just go to spend a weekend in the Wind Rivers, experience the state? And and vice versa.
SPEAKER_01For those who come to Wyoming and say, hey, maybe you've moved here recently, and maybe they've moved here for, let's say, the the low tax advantages of being in Wyoming, or say they've moved here because it's a great place to retire, or they've moved here for some economic opportunities, it'd be great if they connected to the university also so that they understand that this one four-year institution that represents the entire state uh is important to everyone in there in
Contributing to State Workforce and Economy
SPEAKER_01every part of the state. What do you think Wyoming, the state, gets from having a university like uh UW?
SPEAKER_00They get professionals that are skilled in their craft. Um, you know, I I've had conversations over the past few weeks with some of the deans of our colleges, and I think back to how we're providing teachers for the state, how we're providing healthcare professionals, how we're providing small business owners, how we're providing all of these things that the state desperately needs. Workers in oil and gas, uh our energy producers, uh, engineers, all of these different things that the state needs, and they're being trained at the University of Wyoming in the state, and they're going out because they feel a connection to the state. So I think we do provide that to the state of Wyoming. And, you know, hopefully we we allow our students to want to stay in the state.
SPEAKER_01So help me understand this then, because I give as I've started to go around the state and I've been asked this a lot hey, how do we keep young people in the state of Wyoming? We are having a really difficult time doing it. You're a young person, you're a talented human being. Uh what do we as a state need to do to retain young people, and what could the university do to contribute to that retention?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh, I think as a state, it's just about making it attractive for young people to start families, to own homes, uh, to have that economic prosperity that they may not find other places. I think right now it's very difficult for a young person to see a future in Wyoming because it's so expensive. It's really hard to get that single family home. It's really hard to raise that family. I mean, every young person out of college has aspirations for a family, for a well-paying job, for stability. And sometimes that's not provided right now in our state. And I think that's something we need to think about, both at the university level and at the statewide level, is how can we provide opportunities for our students to feel economically stable in the University of Wyoming?
SPEAKER_01You have the pulse of the of the young people at the university, which is the greatest concentration of young people in the state, is sitting right here in Laramie. And it's you don't have data, but would you have to say, in your impression, that vast majority are are looking to leave the state, want to stay in the state and can't, or is it a mixed bag?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think it is a mixed bag, and obviously I don't want to speak on on data that I don't have. But uh, you know, I think there is a really large proportion of of our students that do want to stay, but they just don't have that opportunity to stay. Kids and students come from all over the state.
SPEAKER_01Uh do you find that they have different perspectives where depending on where they come from the state? 100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think I think a rancher from uh Warland is gonna have a vastly different perspective from some. Who grew up in uh the middle of Cheyenne. And I think that's the magic about the University of Wyoming. You really don't get that other places. And the fact that, you know, one of my one of my best friends, uh, he's actually from Nigeria. There's so much diversity of thought and opinion in our in our college, and that's due to to the people from around the state, from around the country, from around the world that want to come to the University of Wyoming.
SPEAKER_01What is working in terms of the student experience at UW?
SPEAKER_00I think what's working is is we're getting we're getting our students uh connected with the campus. I think we're we're making sure that we we invite our students back on campus. Um our beautiful new dorms that we just built. We're getting those students right on campus. There are fantastic, our new dining hall, um, our new STEM facilities. Uh we're getting people back on campus, and I think that's working. I think we do have work to do from that, but but that's something we can highlight as to to where we're going.
Freedom of Expression and Academic Integrity
SPEAKER_00Additionally, I think of something else that's working is there's been a lot of conversations in higher education and national politics as a whole over uh freedom of expression and and academic um integrity on our campuses. And uh, you know, there's been a lot of questions recently over the University of Wyoming and are are students free to express their thoughts in class? Are they are they free to have their own opinions? Tell me about it. And I 100% agree they are. I think they really are, and I think we've made great strides over the last few years on that. And I think that's the success of our campus. We are making every effort possible to make sure that students don't feel scared to state their opinion, that they feel welcome to state their opinion, uh, and that they feel empowered to state their opinion because that independence of thought, it's a key value of Wyoming, but it's also something that we have to promote. If we don't have that independence of thought at the university, we aren't shaping our young men and women across the state to be good career people. They're not gonna be good in their careers if they don't have that independence and independence of thought.
SPEAKER_01I think it's a great point about independence of thought and the freedom and the safety to state your opinion. But there's a flip side. You have to be prepared for someone to have a different opinion. And you better be able to support your opinion and use some evidence to do so. And you need to have a little bit of that back to that grit when you don't hear what you like. You need to be able to have the character to listen to it and then respond. And then at the end of the day, walk out of a classroom or of a setting and say, hey, we might disagree on this, but it doesn't mean we need to vilify each other. Do you think that we're doing well on the University of Wyoming in that regard?
SPEAKER_00I think we are. I think we are. There's a lot of different uh organizations on campus, a lot of different schools of thought that do fundamentally disagree with each other. Uh, I was involved in an organization called Bridge UIO uh for the past few years, and that's all about promoting these uh uh freedom of expression conversations on campus, bringing two different uh organizations that may be political in nature to have discussions on these things. And the idea behind it uh was not to have them agree at the end of the day. It was not to have them walk out of the studio uh saying, I agree with you and wholeheartedly, I can't believe I thought that was my opinion. That's not the idea. The idea is to make sure that they understand the person behind that opinion. Uh and I think we are doing well at the University of Wyoming differentiating an opinion from a person, but I think we have to continue with that idea.
SPEAKER_01Do you think that there's a an environment where rigorous and robust debate and discourse can take place, and in that discussion you can grow as a person? And then are and are people willing to change their minds based on these uh positions and counterpositions? Uh 100%.
SPEAKER_00I think that's what has to happen. Is it happening though? I I think it is. I think it is happening. I I think there's been so many discussions that I've been a part of. There's been so many uh uh forums on campus where uh students are coming, they're coming with one opinion uh and and they hear evidence presented or they they see uh different differing opinions being presented and and they understand that maybe my opinion was ill-informed, maybe it was uh an issue of uh I just went along with the status quo. And I think that comes back to the the character of a cowboy being that independent individual. You don't have to go along with a group. Once you believe something, you can change that belief if the even if the group doesn't believe that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's called independence right there, which I like. I I do have to ask this question though. Do you uh sometimes we hear uh a student, and that might not be at the University of Wyoming. This is more broadly in higher education, where a student says, I don't feel safe to express my opinion or my conversation is chilled in the classroom. But really, what's typically happening is the student is concerned about being policed by other students by saying something that might be considered unpopular or that something could be posted that says this person said this. So, again, what I'm very much concerned about, because my interest is the same as yours. I want absolute independence of thought. I want clearly an environment where we can have open discussion. And I'm a big believer in the free marketplace of ideas, which is let the best ideas rise to the top, we can have a discussion, we can have a debate, and evidence will support the argument that makes the most sense. And I have the right and in fact, uh the independence to think the way I I want without perhaps imposing it on others. And one of the most classic of Wyoming traits or values is uh you do you, I do me, right? Or you might ask me a question and I might say, it's really none of your business. Right? Those are very traditional Wyoming values. How do you think that resonates here at the University of Wyoming when I say some of these independence of thought, true, true, legitimate conversation, privacy? Are those things considered virtues at UW?
SPEAKER_00I I think they are. Um I think UW has to do a good job maintaining the separation between independence of thought uh and then again infringing on other people's independence of thought. There's no place at the University of Wyoming to have your opinion and then infringe on other people's opinions just because you believe they may be wrong. But what if it hurts your feelings?
SPEAKER_01Or what if you're so offended that you think it's it's disrespectful? Isn't that an and aren't you going to tell me that I can't say that because it's it might be considered uh hateful?
SPEAKER_00I think if we're if we're gonna promote independence of thought and independence of action, uh we need to support our our First Amendment. Uh and and uh you know, whatever interpretation you may have of that First Amendment, uh, but we have to make sure that our students whatever they may say, as long as it's not infringing on other people's opinions and beliefs and ideals, they are free to say that.
SPEAKER_01You just hit on my my underlying point, which is do we have the are we developing the intellectual resilience in our students? Because if they if we are, and we combine all of the other great things you mentioned about the student experience, the sky is the limit for the UW graduate. If you can walk into the rest of this world with intellectual resilience and have those some of those those traits that we talked about, my goodness, you're gonna be something special. So I'm glad to hear that. Um,
The Student Experience: What is Working?
SPEAKER_01what are things that we need to work on when it comes to the student experience?
SPEAKER_00One thing really comes to mind when I think of what we need to work on uh when it comes to our student experience. We talked a lot about external internships and experiential learning, right? But I think we also need to focus on on our internal uh learning within the the university. I think about especially like our student positions and our student jobs. Um, you know, personally, I'm the president of ASUW. I've had a lot of real world experience in my position as president of ACW. I had that when I was a senator, uh, I had that uh when I was a first-year senator. I think about people that are maybe working in um our union staff. Um we used to have a lot of different positions in the union that were uh focused on student programming. Um so these students they would work, they would be those programmatic bodies within the union. They would see what we needed for the students, and then they would push that out. They would, they would have a budget, they'd work on these things, and it was well accepted by by a lot of our student population, our student body. Uh, I think in the past few months and the past few years, we've gone away from that. We've gone away from from promoting students as those genuine programmatic bodies. I I don't know the answers, and you might neither. Do you know why we went away from it? You know, I think there's been a lot of conversations around efficiencies of the university. Yeah, sure. Right. And one of those efficiencies that that was promoted was when cutting student positions. And if we can't give our students the the materials that they need to be successful in the job field, to be successful in the workforce within our university, then I don't think we're doing it right. So we need to make sure that we we provide our students with uh as many opportunities, both internally and externally as possible. So that's why I think that that as we think through these next years, can we bring those student positions back? Can we put students more students in our labs? Can we put more students back in our union? Can we put more students maybe at the half acre, at these different positions so they can get that tangible experience while making money because they have to pay for school?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a that's a great point. All right, we'll come back to this a little bit in in a in a few moments because I do want to ask you about some of the other things that are at the top of your agenda as the ASUW president. Yeah. Before I do that though, let me ask you this question. So I've been asked a couple of times, hey, President Reeves, are you gonna put your focus on this? Are you gonna put your focus on this? Are you gonna put your focus on this? And my answer is consistently we're gonna have a relentless pursuit of excellence in all things. It's not a haves and have-nots. You don't have to, you know, we can have um athletic program that is winning conference championships while we're also doing world-class cutting edge research. But am I right? Do you think we can be good at all of it, or do you think this is a finite pie and we have to pick and choose what we spend our time on at the university?
SPEAKER_00I think we have to be good at all of it because as we move forward and in the new scape of uh landscape of higher education, um, it's just more competitive. Yeah. If we're not the best, if we're not excellent in everything that we do, we don't get those students. We don't get the individuals that come to the University of Wyoming, support the University of Wyoming, make the University of Wyoming what it is. So we do have to be excellent.
SPEAKER_01Do you think there is um the ability to do that in this resource constrained environment?
SPEAKER_00And if so, how do we do it? I think there is. Uh, and I think it starts with leadership. I think it starts with excitement around the ideas of what we're gonna do.
SPEAKER_01Did you just throw this back on me?
SPEAKER_00Did you just say it's like my job to make this happen?
SPEAKER_01You simply that's a lot, like that's a lot of pressure.
SPEAKER_00So it starts with it starts with building excitement from the top, and then that that descends down to those at the university. I think a lot of students that I've talked to over this past few months have been really excited about this leadership change and how we've uh there's just seems to be a level of you know, just genuine excitement around what the university can do.
SPEAKER_01So I've been asked this question
UW Priorities and Growth
SPEAKER_01too, which is what's your priority? And I could get into the granularity and explain pockets of it, but it's it comes down to this simple as this growth. All right. How do we grow? Now, at and you don't have to look at it just from a a Wyoming perspective or University of Wyoming perspective. You can look at it from your demographic or your age. But one of the things that is consistently brought up is that there's a a demographic decline in young people. Yeah. You all are an increasingly important commodity for higher education. Higher education is in this incredible seismic shift where schools are collapsing or they're combining, they're cutting programs, they're looking for efficiencies because there just aren't as many young people that want to go to college or are willing to go to college. Yet you still have to compete in that environment and you still have to grow in that environment. So if you were gonna say, hey, Shane Reeves, here's something you should think about that would appeal to young people, what what would it be?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you you mentioned growth and how do we get students to come to the University of Wyoming, grow the University of Wyoming. I think it starts with uh ensuring that they know what their tuition and fees are going to. That ROI is so important. I've had many conversations across campus as well. You think there's confusion on that? I think there is. I think students don't necessarily know what their student fees and what their tuition is. I think we need to be more transparent in that. It's really hard to tell a student you're paying X, Y, and Z for college, but they don't know what they're getting back. And I've had conversations, especially around student fees. Maybe how can we create a handbook that says, you know, you're paying X, Y, and Z fee. Here's what you have to do to get an ROI, uh, uh, an acceptable ROI on that, on that student fee. It's a good idea. Um, you know, and and it comes back to tuition as well. Like, how do we make sure that the tuition the tuition students are paying, they're getting enough out of that? I mean, there's been so much data thrown around in in different studies and in higher education. And we have to think about it as students are getting wary of the tuition that they're they're paying to the university. They don't know if that bachelor's degree is going to be worth it in the long run. So I think something that the university is that a societal question? I think it is. And and what the university can do is we just prove that that it is worth it. Coming to the University of Wyoming will give you the connections, it'll give you the advancement, it'll give you the opportunities that you will not get if you go into the workforce straight out of high school.
Student Leadership and the Future of Wyoming
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What uh what would you say uh the students are looking for from university leadership?
SPEAKER_00The students are are looking for first and foremost uh is stability. I think stability is something that my vice president Ash and Alwood and I have talked a lot about in ASUW, and I think that extends up to the university leadership. We need to be stable, we need to be reliable, we need to be dependable. And then we also need to be transparent. There's a lot of decisions that have been made. There's a lot of I I think angst might be the wrong word, but uh but maybe fear around the transition. A lot of students haven't come back to the University of Wyoming campus yet. And when they come back in a few weeks, I think that the administration needs to be stable, they need to be transparent, and they need to say, here's what we're doing, here's how we're going to grow, here's how we're going to expand. This is what we're excited about. And I think that will get students excited. It really will.
SPEAKER_01All right, so let me let me talk a little bit about student leadership and really the future of the University of Wyoming, which I'm really, really excited about. So just so our listeners and watchers can understand, just explain to me what exactly what ASUW is and your responsibilities.
SPEAKER_00That's a fantastic question. I get this a lot, that it's it's like a uh a student body government in a high school. You know, you're just planning the homecoming and the prom. Uh we do help with the homecoming, but that is not at all uh not at all our our entire extent. So ASUW, uh it's it's a fully fledged student uh organization, student body uh government. Uh its budget is about $1.1 million. Uh we have about 53 people within our organization, including our programs. Uh we are split into three branches: so executive, judicial, and legislative. Uh I head our executive branch. Uh Ashley Elwood, my vice president, heads our uh legislative branch. We have 21 senators. Uh we have different programs that we've started throughout the years, uh, such as our non-traditional student council, our graduate student council. The one I'm really excited about, we're looking to grow our student legal services. Oh, interesting. It's a really fascinating program where it's it's free for student to use students to use. We have an attorney that we pay to be of use to these students. Uh, we have interns, um, so they come in if they have a uh a legal issue, a legal question. Do student legal services have any type of connection to the law school? They do, yes. Great, yes, yeah. Um, you know, we we have our interns are actually both uh law students at the law school, so we work very closely with them. It's really just an exciting opportunity that students don't know about, and we we really are excited about that. Uh some other things we've we've started in the past, uh, we started our DIA shuttle program. Um so we we charter a bus from Laramie to DIA um both at the beginning and end of of semesters, which is really exciting. Um I don't know if you've heard about our safe ride program that's been here for many years, but that was actually an ASUW initiative when it first started. So um an amazing things that ACW can do, and we're really excited about moving forward. What are students generally talking about?
SPEAKER_01Well, I don't know if you want to hear. It doesn't have to be just about University of Wyoming. Yeah. It can be anything, but you know, I want to hear it all. Give it to me. Give it to me.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, you're always gonna hear parking, right?
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Uh, you know, and and I think parking is it is a it is a big issue on campus, and I think if you talk to any student, the first thing they will say is parking. Um the way I think through it is it is difficult to find more parking options on campus. I think we have a fantastic shuttle system uh already in place that that we can students can utilize. Um but the where the where I get hung up is accessibility with our parking. There's not a lot of space for for students, for faculty, for staff to have handicapped parking, uh, to have any sort of parking for for any uh ADA reasons. And I think that's the difficulty where I'm at. I know some of it is is beyond our control. You know, we have uh Ivinson getting torn up, we have the Union Green Space going and all these different things, but I really worry about a lot of our students being able to access our beautiful campus. And that's something we really need to think through as we move forward um with operations and others is how do we make our campus accessible for everyone, regardless of who they may be.
SPEAKER_01That's a great one.
SPEAKER_00What else are students talking about? Something that we're talking about because students have brought it up to us, is our graduate students. Uh, we talk a lot about um our our graduate students and their stipend that they receive to be at the University of Wyoming. Um, and and frankly, it's just not enough right now. The stipends are not enough for the graduate students. The stipends are not enough for the graduate students. They can't afford to live and work at the University of Wyoming. Uh, you know, compared to our regional competitors, it is very low. It's in it's in the lower tier of our graduate students, stipends across the region, and we need to support those graduate students. Um, I know everyone is very excited at the University of Wyoming over reaching that R1 research institution classification. And I think to maintain that, and the reason we got there is our graduate students, the work that they're putting in, the research that they're doing, not just for the university, but the state of Wyoming. And if we don't support our graduate students, if we don't give them a livable wage, we're going to lose those students to our regional competitors. I just don't think that's something that can happen. So something ASUW is working on a lot this year is how can we talk to our state legislature? How can we talk to our representatives? How can we make sure that our graduate students are fairly and equally compensated so that they want to be a part of the mission of the University of Wyoming and they can be a part of the University of Wyoming? Right. Anything else that students talking about?
SPEAKER_01Because I have one that I want to ask you about, but this is this is fascinating. Keep going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think the the one that I would, the other one that I would highlight
Fraternity and Sorority Life
SPEAKER_00is our fraternity and sorority life. Sure. Um, so I'm actually the president of my fraternity, Cap Alpha Order. Uh we started in 2024 uh here on campus. Can you just can you just real quickly lay out all the things you're president of? Because like I want to know what else. No, I think that's it right now. All right, keep going. But no, uh so we started it on uh uh 2024 on campus. Is it was me and a bunch of my buddies. We're actually all on the same dorm floor, which was pretty fun. Uh and we decided to start it because we felt like there wasn't a fraternal experience on campus that fit what we needed. A fraternity that prioritized uh things like academics, things like opportunity, things like connection, things like uh getting involved on campus, all of these different things. And so we started this fraternity and and I grew to get to know the FSL community as a whole. Uh and it really is fascinating. And right now, um, you know, something ACW has identified, and my vice president Ashley Nellwood, she's in Chi Omega as well, so she's uh very in tune with this as well, is there's just a frayed relationship, you know, between our university administration, our board of trustees, and our fraternity and sorority community. And and we have to we have to work at that.
SPEAKER_01I'd like to point out when you say university administration, that's me. So I don't want a frayed relationship. Yeah. So what do I need to do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and something that we're we're doing, it's a it's a flagship initiative is we started an ad hoc committee uh within ASEW. So we'll invite student leaders from across fraternity and sorority life to come in, uh talk about the the issues that they have, what they're seeing on campus, what they need to work on, uh and then we'll compile that. So we'll we'll work through a committee through December, we'll compile that into a report, we'll send it out, we'll we'll work with administration, we'll work with our board of trustees. Uh trustee Walters, our FSL liaison, will work very heavily with him to make sure that this relationship is repaired because I think at the end of the day, there are a lot of grievances and issues that can just be fixed with a conversation. Sure. Right. And so we really have to focus on that. And we focus we're focusing on kind of three key tenets within that group. So, first of all, our space allocation. How do we how do we make sure that our fraternity and sorority chapters feel like they belong on campus? Um, how do they feel like they're supported within their housing if they're housed, if they're unhoused, how do they have an opportunity to at least participate on campus? Uh, the second one is uh working on our university administration relationship, obviously. And then the third one is how do we get our governing bodies of fraternity and sorority life? So, College Panalytic Council and our interfraternity council, how do we get them to work with administration beyond ASCW? How do they become vocal? How do they become autonomous? How do they become independent to then think about and talk about their issues and their complaints to become and make it a more productive relationship? Yeah, I'm looking forward to those conversations.
SPEAKER_01And I think that I like the effort that's being put forth. And me, and along with all the others that are in the the broader administration apparatus, we'll absolutely participate in those conversations. Because one of the things I have come to the conclusion that needs to stop is all of the internal fighting and bickering that's taking place in the university so that we can uh figure out a way to start to build something better and move forward. So I'm I'm I'm really anxious to have that conversation.
Artificial Intelligence (AI)
SPEAKER_01Let me ask you about artificial intelligence. All right. Um this is uh this is of a seismic change in higher education, and I'm a believer that AI is not a fad. You're not putting it back into the the genie, back into the bottle. Uh and we need to figure out a way to integrate AI into the student experience, the student education, into how faculty teach, and how and how we run our processes and everything else, everything else. Um, but what do students think about with AI? And then and and before you answer that, is there a and is there like a freshman is going to think about it different than someone who's 22? Or is there a monolithic approach to this, to your generation's perspective on AI?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I think going off the first part of that question, 100%, uh I I think a freshman coming in will have used it more prevalent prevalently in in classes, in high school maybe they'll have used it in their daily life. Someone like me, a junior in in college, maybe our seniors coming through, they haven't used it as much because it's been a situation where it came out in in 2022, 2023, and there hasn't been an opportunity for those uh for AI to get integrated into those teaching learning workflows. And so I think there's still a a general sentiment around higher education that you can't use AI, right? Like it's cheating. It's academically dishonest. Uh and I think that's put people like me at a strong disadvantage for when I go out into the workforce because someone two, three years behind me is going to have used AI.
SPEAKER_01I mean Sam, I don't mean I don't want to interrupt you. Yeah. You know, there's all this concern that AI is going to replace everyone's job. All the indications are actually it's those who don't know how to use AI or are unwilling to use AI are going to lose their jobs and they're going to be replaced by those who are enabled by AI. I can do more. So your point about being at a disadvantage concerns me a little bit. And so how do I what do we need to do to to get you caught up?
SPEAKER_00Yeah I I think first of all we need to we need to have a proactive approach when it comes to implementing AI at the university we have to establish ourselves as a leader in the space in the region. First of all, it'll attract it'll attract young high school graduates to the University of Wyoming.
SPEAKER_01Do you think if the University of Wyoming is known as a as an institution of higher education that is for lack of a better term all in on AI, which which comes with with some nuance, right? Ethical approach, you know, ethical and thoughtful way to integrate AI, you got to figure out a way not to have critical thinking skills atrophy. But at the bottom, at the at the at the foundation we're all in on AI.
SPEAKER_00You think that will attract young people I think it will I think it will and and you know as we just discussed there's a hunger almost for for students to learn how to use AI appropriately and efficiently and effectively because again like we just said it's going to be implemented into workflow flows across the workforce as you get out of college and and if you don't know how to use AI you will be at a disadvantage. I will like to say that that as we talk about this and the student perspective on AI, there is a there is a massive caveat when it comes to that I think I believe that we do need to be forward facing uh when when we talk about AI, but there's a lot of student opinion uh that differs from me when it comes to to AI and I've heard a lot of it as I've talked with people as I've talked to my constituents of course uh the the biggest thing I think that most people are concerned about is AI and and its uh linkage to data centers and those environmental impacts. I think a lot of people are very concerned about if they use AI or they they utilize tools, generative AI, anything like that, what will it do to the great backyard that we have right out there? And there's a lot of genuine concern about that. So I think something that we can we can work on is is maybe expanding uh you know AI environmental research into into our our our colleges. Let people come in and listen to experts on either end talk about it. And it's an area for us to be innovative in the space as well. I think it really is. And as we think through these challenges and these issues uh and we have to we do have to keep in mind the challenges that come with AI but we can be innovators in the space and we can work with our students who maybe are skeptics, maybe maybe are apprehensive, maybe they won't use AI. Maybe we can't change their mind and that goes back to that independence of thought we talked about earlier and and I don't want to change their mind but I want to make them think or feel like they are they are safe. They could use it and they can use it responsibly and effectively and make sure that they use it in a way that's I'm gonna ask you a very controversial question.
SPEAKER_01Sure is that really realistic I mean can someone truly say I'm a conscientious objector from technology so I'm in the industrial evolution I'm like I'm not gonna use this new thing called the engine or I'm not gonna use machinery. I'm gonna stick with the horse right time will pass them by my that you know things change. Uh how much do you balance someone making the choice? I if someone doesn't want to use it, go for it. But are they going to be successful?
SPEAKER_00Well I think as a we have a responsibility as a university to to provide an education to those students regardless of what they do believe. I think it's also you know the faculty and the administration's responsibility to to highlight the the dangers of having that that mindset you talk about you know if you used a horse in the industrial revolution sure you could get by you're not going to be efficient you're not gonna be effective you may not get a job and those things have to be broadcasted they have to be talked about and and I don't think anyone knows where I AI is going to lead us in the next 10 to 15 years.
SPEAKER_01You also have this you you also don't want to lose those things that are uniquely human right which is interesting because this makes the importance of the humanities like the humanities are really important in the age of AI but you also have to figure out a way to you're right who knows which how AI is going to go, but we also don't want to lose our humanity and we just talked about it and we want to teach each other to to engage with you know we want students to engage with each other engage with the community. So balancing all this will be a challenge and you're not gonna have an answer I'm not gonna have an answer. However I do think that it's here and you have to live in the world you're in not the world you want to live in and uh and so figuring out how to address all those different interests as well as having a really informed discussion yeah about some of these topics will be will be um will be interesting as we all work together on uh ensuring that our graduates are successful especially in in um the global economy those who know how to use ai and can use it um in a way that gives them um advantage it really does all right let me let me ask you this real quick
What Makes a Cowbow?
SPEAKER_01let me get a little bit more personal what does being a cowboy mean to you I think showing up every day putting the best foot forward putting your best self forward having a good work ethic having tenacity and then also having humility I think that's another part about being a cowboy is you have to be humble. So when you say those terms it's like warms my heart do you see those values reflected in our in our student body at large I think I do. It's great. Can you give me an example? Do you have a story?
SPEAKER_00Well I think uh as I think through my fraternity again uh the the young men of cap alpha order we we started from nothing it's it's been historically very difficult to to establish a fraternity on campus that's been as successful as KA uh we we started from from nothing we had a a national advisor come here we had one guy whose brother was a KA and that was it right and he he worked hard he recruited he got people involved in the mission uh and he also got people involved in our in our values as well and and we have six values the university has values and we can link those values in a in a in a productive way and I think that's how I see people being a cowboy is those 10 original guys you know that I was a part of we started and we built something that we wanted to see on campus and that goes back to the showing up every day. We showed up every day we created something that we wanted and we got something out of it.
SPEAKER_01And you know you've been given a tremendous opportunity to be in this position and uh and I think there's a really good reason for that which is I can see it as we talk uh I think that you're that selfless or that servant leader focus you have is exactly what we want uh coming out of the university and it really does demonstrate what we want out of a cowboy. All right Sam so so
A Look Ahead
SPEAKER_01last question for you and then I have a few I'd like to end with a rapid fire. Okay when you graduate and you come back as an alum and uh and and you're here to see all of your your friends and your classmates and let's say it's 10 or 20 years into the future where do you hope the University of Wyoming is at that point I think the biggest thing is just the University of Wyoming continues its commitment to students.
SPEAKER_00I like it I I think the University of Wyoming is here because of its students. It will continue to be here because of its students. Of course we have world class faculty great staff a great administration but without the students it's nothing. So I I really hope as we move forward I can come back and I can be proud and I can talk to a student on campus and they say I feel supported I feel heard I feel concretely able to to be myself on campus and that's something that I really want to see.
SPEAKER_01I like that answer I have a little bit different one. In 10 years I want the University of Wyoming to be considered one of the best state institutions in the United States I think we're gonna make it happen more. Okay Sam let's just dream for a moment dream sure just put aside all of your all of your practical and pragmatic thoughts and just let's just think about it.
SPEAKER_00You have five minutes alone with the president of the University of Wyoming let's just say you did what would you tell him well I think I've had 45 minutes with the president and you're like it's way overstated it's super it's super unaffiliar no no I think I would I would tell you the that there's so much excitement around this university at this time I think you understand it but it it can't be overstated that our state is at a critical time with the University of Wyoming and there are so many supporters of the university I think it's time to capitalize on that to go it's it's time to to go around to the state meet stakeholders talk with individuals talk with parents prospective students also get students out there have students talk to to high school graduates have students talk to 10th graders get them excited about the University of Wyoming because their parents are the alumni are everybody in the state is excited about the University of Wyoming and we have to go.
SPEAKER_01We have to go now I agree with you I'm in the process of trying to recruit one kid to the University of Wyoming every week. I'm on a pretty good pace I think I think I'm doing
Rapid Fire Questions
SPEAKER_01it. All right so before we wrap up have a little bit of I like to have a little bit of fun here. I like to do some rapid fire questions Sam. Fantastic who you who you are don't overthink them. Okay first thing that comes to your mind unless it's something mean about me then stop and think about it. Okay here we go best place on campus to study.
SPEAKER_00I really like the NZ STEM building actually all right yeah favorite UW tradition cowboy joe nice favorite cowboy or cowgirl sport cowboy basketball I uh I started watching it with my grandpa in like 2010 uh we go we go we have season tickets every year still remember the days of Larry Nance and Josh Adams that's good best thing to do in Laramie on a Saturday night go support Polk's football love it uh do you like the mountains or the plains?
SPEAKER_01Mountains okay are you a morning class or afternoon class person? Morning class. Wow yeah you're gonna go far in life best food on campus the sushi at CJ's I'm just telling you the dining facility is awesome all over it is pretty good everything in there is really good uh one professor at UW that every student should take a class from Dr. Chris Rothes in the honors college great one thing every new UW student should do during their first semester get involved one word that describes UW amazing yeah like it one word that describes Wyoming beautiful like I like I'd go gritty but gritty doesn't sound beautiful it sounds like you're I don't know I don't know what that sounds like beautiful sounds better uh what's your favorite book my favor 1984 ooh okay uh why should someone become a UW Cowboy because it's the best place in the country who if you could have dinner with one person from history who would it be Kevin De Bruyne he's a soccer player from Manchester City. Wow yeah that's a deep pull right there yeah okay uh in 10 seconds give me your best pitch to uh to an 11th grader who's looking at a college across the country why they should come to UW because uh this university as we've talked about before it explicitly balances the personal touch with world class facilities and you won't get that anywhere else I love it all right well Sam thank you and I truly appreciate you being the the first guest on UWYO Spotlight there'll be many more thank you President Reeves it's been an honor
Closing Remarks
SPEAKER_01and thanks to all of you for joining us for this first episode of UWYO Spotlight we're going to use this podcast to explore the people ideas discoveries and opportunities that make the University of Wyoming special and to talk about where we're going next. I hope you'll join us for the next episode until then go pokes